The Forum
At the suggestion of Tony Cooke, author of 'Atlas of the GWR 1947', and various very detailed 'Track Layout Diagrams' we are proposing to open a Railway Forum, the purpose of which is to provide a method for raising questions, or displaying information, which does not fit neatly into one of the other menu options. Members are encouraged to use this new facility and to respond to queries that may be raised from time to time
For example:-
CORNWALL MINERAL RAILWAYS
The opening date for all lines is given as 1.6.1874. From the following, the 1.6.1874 date has little validity, other than the official/ceremonial opening date, as clearly some of the system was in use prior to that date and some lines (including parts of the N. & C. Jcn.) opened later.
“On the 30th May a bad accident on the Cornwall Mineral Railways. The line has been opened for goods traffic a week or two, although the formal opening celebrations were to have taken place today.” - Birmingham Daily Post 1.6.1874 and “Accident at Ponts Mill on Saturday 30th. Engine and ten wagons of clay derailed.”- C.M.R. Min. 4.6.1874.
“The company’s main lines were opened for traffic on 1st June last.”- C.M.R. six monthly meeting 27.2.1875. Royal Cornwall Gazette 6.3.1875
“The main portion of the line was opened for mineral traffic on the 1st June last. The entire system will, however, not come into full operation until certain works, sidings, etc; have been executed.” - Cornwall Minerals Rly. Director’s report. Royal Cornwall Gazette 5.9.1874
“Reported that the incline at Newquay was completed, but that at present the traffic was being worked up and down by an old engine hitherto used for pumping purposes.”- C.M.R. Min. 19.11.1874.
“Reported that the tram road connecting the clay works at the terminus of the Retew Branch was completed and that traffic was coming therefrom.” – C.M.R. Min. 3.12.1874.
“The company had constructed a branch line near Treamble Mill of one mile and a half in length.”- C.M.R, six monthly meeting 27.2.1875. Royal Cornwall Gazette 6.3.1875
“Approval given for the tramway between Prideaux Jcn. and the foot of the incline to be strengthened in connection with china stone from the works of the West of England China Clay & Stone Co.”- C.M.R. Min. 18.3.1875. Note use of name ‘Prideaux Jc.’ rather than Pontsmill.
NEWQUAY & CORNWALL JCN.
The perceived opening dates for this line are
Burngullow – Drinnick Mill 1.7.1869 (Worked by contractor until 1.6.1874)
Drinnick Mill – St. Dennis Jcn. 1.6.1874
Burngullow – Drinnick Mill
“The operations have been confined to the formation of the sidings, road, and platforms at Higher Carpella, and the erection of an engine shed at Burngullow. They are now in so forward a state that the first section of the line may be opened for traffic at an early date. The p. way is now completed to two miles four chains.” - Newquay & Cornwall Jcn. Rly. Engineer’s report. Royal Cornwall Gazette 28.2.1867
This throws into doubt the 1.7.1869 date. Is it likely that given the above, that the opening would have been delayed over two years?
“The N. & C. Jcn. Rly was opened for mineral traffic on the 1st. Special train of engine and three carriages from St. Austell and back.”- Royal Cornwall Gazette 3.7.1869.
Perhaps this was referring to a ceremonial opening?
“Five miles and one furlong of the line had been completed, but only three miles and one furlong had yet been worked by engines.” - N. & C. J. Rly half yearly report Royal Cornwall Gazette 4.3.1871
“Traffic on the N. & C. J. line in the six months to 30th June had increased by 2,000 tons. Five miles were being constructed and of this, three and one eight mile was used for traffic.” - N. & C. Jcn. Rly. half yearly meeting 1.9.1871 Royal Cornwall Gazette 2.9.1871.
The above confirm the opening only to Drinnick Mill and the distance from Burngullow Jcn. (288.50) to Nanpean (291.60) is 3 miles 10 chains, which ties in nicely with the three and one eight miles.
Drinnick Mill – St. Dennis Jcn.
From the various reports, below, it would appear that the St. Dennis to Hendra portion was opened on 28.9.1874, with the missing section to Drinnick Mill following, sometime in 3.1875?.
“On Monday [28th Sept.] the first train of coal arrived at Martin Bros. works at Hendra on the N. & C. Jcn. Rly. The siding is not yet completed but the wagons were unloaded by way of slides at the side of the line. A temporary loading stage was also erected for the loading of china clay and the train left with a full load for Fowey. It is expected that the line will be opened through to Drinnick Mill in the course of a fortnight.” - Royal Cornwall Gazette 3.10.1874
“The works from St. Dennis to Drinnick Mill are now practically complete and will be ready for traffic in the course of a few days. “- N. & C. J. Rly. half yearly meeting Royal Cornwall Gazette 6.3.1875.
“The C.M.Rly. having completed the junction between the St. Dennis Railway and the N. & C. Jcn. Rly., on the mixed gauge, are now doing a large traffic in china clay. [This was more to do with mixing the gauge than the opening of the line] ”- N. & C. J. Rly. half yearly meeting Royal Cornwall Gazette 4.9.1875.
Clearly, from the above, the line could not have been opened on 1.6.1874.
Another example of an item perhaps suitable for a ‘Forum’ is the opening date of Burngullow station. Charles Clinker, and others, quote it as opening on 1.2.1863, but;
- “It is anticipated that passenger trains will commence stopping at the new station at Burngullow on the first of the ensuing month.”- Royal Cornwall Gazette 27.2.1863.
- “A siding and weighbridge have been completed at Burngullow and a passenger platform; and a booking office is about to be commenced.” - Cornwall Rly Engineer’s half yearly report at 6.3.1863
From this 1.3.1863 seems to be date.
For example:-
CORNWALL MINERAL RAILWAYS
The opening date for all lines is given as 1.6.1874. From the following, the 1.6.1874 date has little validity, other than the official/ceremonial opening date, as clearly some of the system was in use prior to that date and some lines (including parts of the N. & C. Jcn.) opened later.
“On the 30th May a bad accident on the Cornwall Mineral Railways. The line has been opened for goods traffic a week or two, although the formal opening celebrations were to have taken place today.” - Birmingham Daily Post 1.6.1874 and “Accident at Ponts Mill on Saturday 30th. Engine and ten wagons of clay derailed.”- C.M.R. Min. 4.6.1874.
“The company’s main lines were opened for traffic on 1st June last.”- C.M.R. six monthly meeting 27.2.1875. Royal Cornwall Gazette 6.3.1875
“The main portion of the line was opened for mineral traffic on the 1st June last. The entire system will, however, not come into full operation until certain works, sidings, etc; have been executed.” - Cornwall Minerals Rly. Director’s report. Royal Cornwall Gazette 5.9.1874
“Reported that the incline at Newquay was completed, but that at present the traffic was being worked up and down by an old engine hitherto used for pumping purposes.”- C.M.R. Min. 19.11.1874.
“Reported that the tram road connecting the clay works at the terminus of the Retew Branch was completed and that traffic was coming therefrom.” – C.M.R. Min. 3.12.1874.
“The company had constructed a branch line near Treamble Mill of one mile and a half in length.”- C.M.R, six monthly meeting 27.2.1875. Royal Cornwall Gazette 6.3.1875
“Approval given for the tramway between Prideaux Jcn. and the foot of the incline to be strengthened in connection with china stone from the works of the West of England China Clay & Stone Co.”- C.M.R. Min. 18.3.1875. Note use of name ‘Prideaux Jc.’ rather than Pontsmill.
NEWQUAY & CORNWALL JCN.
The perceived opening dates for this line are
Burngullow – Drinnick Mill 1.7.1869 (Worked by contractor until 1.6.1874)
Drinnick Mill – St. Dennis Jcn. 1.6.1874
Burngullow – Drinnick Mill
“The operations have been confined to the formation of the sidings, road, and platforms at Higher Carpella, and the erection of an engine shed at Burngullow. They are now in so forward a state that the first section of the line may be opened for traffic at an early date. The p. way is now completed to two miles four chains.” - Newquay & Cornwall Jcn. Rly. Engineer’s report. Royal Cornwall Gazette 28.2.1867
This throws into doubt the 1.7.1869 date. Is it likely that given the above, that the opening would have been delayed over two years?
“The N. & C. Jcn. Rly was opened for mineral traffic on the 1st. Special train of engine and three carriages from St. Austell and back.”- Royal Cornwall Gazette 3.7.1869.
Perhaps this was referring to a ceremonial opening?
“Five miles and one furlong of the line had been completed, but only three miles and one furlong had yet been worked by engines.” - N. & C. J. Rly half yearly report Royal Cornwall Gazette 4.3.1871
“Traffic on the N. & C. J. line in the six months to 30th June had increased by 2,000 tons. Five miles were being constructed and of this, three and one eight mile was used for traffic.” - N. & C. Jcn. Rly. half yearly meeting 1.9.1871 Royal Cornwall Gazette 2.9.1871.
The above confirm the opening only to Drinnick Mill and the distance from Burngullow Jcn. (288.50) to Nanpean (291.60) is 3 miles 10 chains, which ties in nicely with the three and one eight miles.
Drinnick Mill – St. Dennis Jcn.
From the various reports, below, it would appear that the St. Dennis to Hendra portion was opened on 28.9.1874, with the missing section to Drinnick Mill following, sometime in 3.1875?.
“On Monday [28th Sept.] the first train of coal arrived at Martin Bros. works at Hendra on the N. & C. Jcn. Rly. The siding is not yet completed but the wagons were unloaded by way of slides at the side of the line. A temporary loading stage was also erected for the loading of china clay and the train left with a full load for Fowey. It is expected that the line will be opened through to Drinnick Mill in the course of a fortnight.” - Royal Cornwall Gazette 3.10.1874
“The works from St. Dennis to Drinnick Mill are now practically complete and will be ready for traffic in the course of a few days. “- N. & C. J. Rly. half yearly meeting Royal Cornwall Gazette 6.3.1875.
“The C.M.Rly. having completed the junction between the St. Dennis Railway and the N. & C. Jcn. Rly., on the mixed gauge, are now doing a large traffic in china clay. [This was more to do with mixing the gauge than the opening of the line] ”- N. & C. J. Rly. half yearly meeting Royal Cornwall Gazette 4.9.1875.
Clearly, from the above, the line could not have been opened on 1.6.1874.
Another example of an item perhaps suitable for a ‘Forum’ is the opening date of Burngullow station. Charles Clinker, and others, quote it as opening on 1.2.1863, but;
- “It is anticipated that passenger trains will commence stopping at the new station at Burngullow on the first of the ensuing month.”- Royal Cornwall Gazette 27.2.1863.
- “A siding and weighbridge have been completed at Burngullow and a passenger platform; and a booking office is about to be commenced.” - Cornwall Rly Engineer’s half yearly report at 6.3.1863
From this 1.3.1863 seems to be date.